Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 4, 2014 14:49:05 GMT
Is that really a good idea, putting PC's on the high council?
|
|
|
Post by firebringeraxel on May 4, 2014 15:32:41 GMT
Is that really a good idea, putting PC's on the high council? Not in my opinion. PC's should not be part of the main story but our own little part of it. Okay... so rather than maintain the tradition of members of the Great Houses being on the Council, we instead give the 'allies' of the Empire a voice. A Gorn, a Leethan, a Ferasan a Nausicaan and an Orion? Or, as a work around whilst maintaining the tradition, the representatives could be 'recommended' by the Houses who lost those who were their Councilmembers? That is assuming that non-Klingons cannot earn a place in a Great House. Which if House of Quark is any indications isn't true. Klingon houses are almost assured to allow access for member races IF that are Honorable and Mighty warriors.
|
|
|
Post by norcaler on May 5, 2014 6:07:21 GMT
Is that really a good idea, putting PC's on the high council? No, but putting the Empire into an internal state of conflict through the actions of NPC and plot PCs that could end up sleeping with the fishes can make things more fun for KDF RP. After all, the Enterprise didn't go to Qo'noS when things were just super swell in the Klingon Empire...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2014 12:46:52 GMT
NPS's that are short term make sense, they can generate RP and aren't permanent just in case cryptic tosses random klingons with names in those positions.
the fishies thing made me chuckle, I'd love to see the Klingons idea of "sleeping with the fishes"
|
|
|
Post by starjumpersix on May 5, 2014 13:17:26 GMT
The cement overshoes are forgone in favor of stabbing the target with a blade of some kind or another on the bridge in such a way the body falls in the water.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 18:27:23 GMT
Perhaps there should be a Federation position equal to the Romulan and Klingon counterpart under Vil or is it assumed that Korzan would assume the Fed side role?
What is the chain of command beyond Vil. Stating it's like NATO I feel is insufficient.
With this post "The Vice Admiral Position in the 146th fleet will still be the top IC character rank (Currently Villain Starsinger). Should the position be vacated, Romulan and Klingon Characters will be eligible for the position, provided players meet the requirements." when you say requirements you mean voted in by the fleet right?
|
|
|
Post by Chris Winters on May 18, 2014 18:50:08 GMT
Excellent points, Rin. Let's pyramid that out for a moment. Head of State NPCs, as long as a Starfleet officer is leading the force, would be Okeg Alpha Quadrant Command NPCs, as long as a Starfleet officer is leading the force, would be Quinn Joint Force Command (Fleets of Tau-Dewa, Eta Eridani and Regulus***, as Alpha Quadrant Defenders) (= 1 CO and XO position, totalling 2 and a support staff of x) ..can theoretically be filled by any of the subordinate positions, once they get promoted up (voted in by us) Klingon/Romulan/UFP Fleet Commands (= 1 CO and XO position EACH, totalling 6, with a support staff of - as is - one fleet captain each [imo needs more personnel like aides]) ..are what Vil and Korz are right now. They would need successors, as I see it, since their new office is much more than just coordinating about 100 ships, it's also got a lot to do with diplomacy. Local fleet leaders are kinda necessary, else they get totally over-swamped. I'd like Vil to comment on this, regarding "being swamped by one fleet already" and the prospect of coordinating three at a time. Because well, we should know before moving on. If we need successors for two positions here, we should get them in place before we put too much on two sets of shoulders and maybe overload some players to the point where they need a timeout. ***) Yes, that's right.. Regulus.. or Eta Eridani. We would have to move to warrant a step like this, since Beta-U is the second farest away sector from all the action that we have. Zeta-A would be the farest away. Beta-U is in the beta quadrant, Iconian plot is happening in the alpha quadrant. Moving an allied task force that far away from what it is to protect doesn't make any kind of sense. To be clear here: Voting on a carte blanche to change this much about our fleet lore is premature and not thought through. I will not vote at this point since there's a terrible lot of unadressed issues here that will affect all of our characters etc pp and I'm not okay with hiding all this behind a foggy general "yes or no" vote before we discussed what it all entails. ..and here's a map of how far away we really are:
|
|
|
Post by Geralyn on May 18, 2014 20:52:22 GMT
With this post "The Vice Admiral Position in the 146th fleet will still be the top IC character rank (Currently Villain Starsinger). Should the position be vacated, Romulan and Klingon Characters will be eligible for the position, provided players meet the requirements." when you say requirements you mean voted in by the fleet right? The requirements would be the same as those put forth for each of the Fleet Admiral elections, such as not having a position of command like the captain of an RP ship (unless they're willing to step out of said position) with any of the candidate's characters, etc. Full details here:Basically the same requirements as all past Fleet Admirals, to be qualified for candidacy, followed by election. ***) Yes, that's right.. Regulus.. or Eta Eridani. We would have to move to warrant a step like this, since Beta-U is the second farest away sector from all the action that we have. Zeta-A would be the farest away. Beta-U is in the beta quadrant, Iconian plot is happening in the alpha quadrant. Moving an allied task force that far away from what it is to protect doesn't make any kind of sense. With the advent of the transwarp network in the STO timeline, distance really doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Starbase 146 has a gate right outside our door, with destinations in Sirius Sector Block and other points (galactic) west. Kind of like how STO is played by people around the RL globe, some technologies just make the world smaller in practice. At least, that's my perception on that topic.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 21:25:03 GMT
as long as its not just granted because they had the lower ranked position, then cool With the advent of the transwarp network in the STO timeline, distance really doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Starbase 146 has a gate right outside our door, with destinations in Sirius Sector Block and other points (galactic) west. Kind of like how STO is played by people around the RL globe, some technologies just make the world smaller in practice. At least, that's my perception on that topic. RP/IC logistic wise this doesn't make sense. Regardless of the gates, why would the HQ for a NATO style combined force for Fed/klingon/Romulan be over in BU and not closer to the combined governments/forces? If anything a NATO style group in the BU would be more Fed/Defari/Cardassian. Really hate how the gates made the galaxy seem so small now lol. Just a thought, rather than a NATO style group, if we really want to stick to BU what about KDF and romulan exchanges, ships loanded to the 146 to help bolster it in the defense of the BU sector?
|
|
|
Post by Geralyn on May 18, 2014 21:40:48 GMT
as long as its not just granted because they had the lower ranked position, then cool With the advent of the transwarp network in the STO timeline, distance really doesn't mean the same thing anymore. Starbase 146 has a gate right outside our door, with destinations in Sirius Sector Block and other points (galactic) west. Kind of like how STO is played by people around the RL globe, some technologies just make the world smaller in practice. At least, that's my perception on that topic. RP/IC logistic wise this doesn't make sense. Regardless of the gates, why would the HQ for a NATO style combined force for Fed/klingon/Romulan be over in BU and not closer to the combined governments/forces? If anything a NATO style group in the BU would be more Fed/Defari/Cardassian. Really hate how the gates made the galaxy seem so small now lol. Just a thought, rather than a NATO style group, if we really want to stick to BU what about KDF and romulan exchanges, ships loanded to the 146 to help bolster it in the defense of the BU sector? Why would the HQ be there? Well, why do companies in the US farm out their tech support to India? Technology of communication makes the distance less important. And it would take far more resources to relocate a whole fleet than to use the transwarp network for deployment. And we're assuming that we'd be the only such joint operations fleet setup. We are the 146th...meaning there are at least 146 separate numbered fleets in Starfleet. We probably won't be THE joint operations setup, merely ONE joint operations setup. So our HQ won't be the be-all HQ for joint operations between the three powers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 21:58:55 GMT
"So our HQ won't be the be-all HQ for joint operations between the three powers." This is the position you guys want to put Vil in though, in command of a Fed/Romulan/Klingon fleets. So where she is it would be the HQ for all three for this fraction of the larger whole. If this makes sense >.<
I feel like this is as if the NATO Allied Command HQ for United Kingdom being located in Tokyo... they could do it, they could command from there, heck their communication infrastructure is a hell of a lot better hehe. I'm not saying it couldn't be done it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
You're correct we're one fleet of many, another reason to get the command structure figured out first so when we're RP'n with other fleets we can speak to it. Also are we again making a suggestion of stepping out of a support fleet role?
|
|
|
Post by norcaler on May 18, 2014 22:54:37 GMT
If this goes through, does this mean a unified logo for both sides of the fleet? IIRC, Federation and Klingon fleets have access to the same artwork for fleet emblems.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Winters on May 18, 2014 22:55:52 GMT
As far as we have seen in STO, there are 3 public transwarp gates in existence that you can see. Earth, Kronos, Dewa III. Two military gates lead to the Borg frontier and are heavily guarded. The ones at the fleet starbases don't make much sense unless there were a set of public gates in the locations you can travel to - since we haven't seen any around there yet, we could naturally assume they're there. Still makes it rather dangerous to rely solely on those few priority targets you could just suicide-run out of commission by damaging them a bit. That's why Omega Force commands out of Gamma-O, having their HQ just behind the gate on the enemy side. DS9 is just a recruiting point.
Rin's right, we should work on how this "Joint Command" thing is supposed to roll first. BEFORE we vote on vague ideas. If all of Starfleet/all of KDF/all of Romulan fleet is supposed to be reformed into a joint venture of three governments.. yeah I don't see that happening anytime soon. At all. They're gonna keep their centuriesold/traditional historical/newly created governments separate and safeguarded, and that means most of their military as well.
I can't see Vil in a Quinn-like position either, commanding fleets that are all NPCs, and from somewhere where it makes no sense, just so our 2.5 IC fleets can be between hundreds of others under her command.
The only way this joint venture thing is gonna work is as a problem-oriented group, like Omega Force. The problem would be the Iconians of course.. who aren't there yet, making this unit an exercise in "are we all patient enough to keep this peace until we someday see some action against an unknown foe?"
If we're supposed to stay a small, backwater support fleet in Beta-U where nothing big happened since the dominion war.. we'll not be the frontline joint command unit leading the charge against the Iconians, though. But instead benefit from a few ships sent our way who are good at scouting (Romulans) or hauling cargo (KDF). For a SUPPORT FLEET primarily concerned with keeping the sector running and adding a little peacekeeping, we already have an abundance of battleships and carriers and destroyers, while lacking exploration and general purpose ships. So all those fancy frontline KDF and Rom forces would NOT be sent our way. Ever. They're needed where the action is. We'd need freighters or mission specialists, at best.
If we give that piece of core fleet lore up on the other hand, we can be *that unit*.. but then we should make the step out of the galaxy's backyard and go where the grownups play, like a good frontline combat unit. And relocate to Eta Eridani at least, where our supposed allies are closeby and we could actually share support lines and go interesting places fast, to investigate an unknown foe.
As things are right now ICly, there is no need or reason for every sector on the map to get such a joint command style unit. Sectors like B-U have been at peace for a long, long time and don't need them, except to cause more trouble through infighting and straining the peace all over the map. Which noone would want to do in their right minds.
So yeah.. back to where the circle started. What is it you are hatching out there, and how the heck is a small, backwater support fleet fitting in with "the big boys on the iconian front" exactly?
|
|
krow
Member
Posts: 177
|
Post by krow on May 19, 2014 0:23:55 GMT
Seems like a cool idea. But in my ever so humble opinion, somewhat unnecessary. How many KDF do we have? Not raiders and mercs and slavegirls, but soldiers of the Empire. How many actual Republic Romulans do we have? Maybe I've just been missing them, but it seems to me like we might have trouble fleshing out those command roles and still having enough people for ensign nobody. Hell, we can't even fill our Fed RP ships anymore.
|
|
|
Post by firebringeraxel on May 19, 2014 3:43:50 GMT
Part of this that I don't understand is why everyone is assuming every arm of the Joint factions forces would be dedicated to the Iconians. Sure yes they are the big looming threat we're working together for but there are still dozens of other threats out there. Assuming that any joint group would have to be dedicated to fighting Iconians is in my opinion narrow-minded and silly. The Beta Ursae is a central point for peaceful relations between the three factions in a real and symbolic way because none of them hold sway over that region for one; and secondly because symbolically it's where they've worked together before. DS9 is a huge Focal point for diplomatic endeavors, trade, commerce, etc. Thinking that it wont be a target in any upcoming war is crazy. So sure it's far away from each empire. That makes it more appealing because it puts all three powers on equal footing. We also seem to forget the fact that Starbase 146 is not the 146th only waypoint. They have a Spire in the Solinae Sphere which gives them access to the Tau Dewa Sector with relative ease. Not to mention the Embassy & Cracking Station 47. Seems like a cool idea. But in my ever so humble opinion, somewhat unnecessary. How many KDF do we have? Not raiders and mercs and slavegirls, but soldiers of the Empire. How many actual Republic Romulans do we have? Maybe I've just been missing them, but it seems to me like we might have trouble fleshing out those command roles and still having enough people for ensign nobody. Hell, we can't even fill our Fed RP ships anymore. This could actually help to fill up RP ships imo. The prospect of RP'ing a KDF or Republic Officer on a Federation vessel(or vice versa) is very interesting and adds another sub-dynamic to the crew that could be fun to play with. I know myself personally I'd love to bring a cross-faction character aboard without having to be an "Exchange Officer" or some other BS excuse. Sure we may not have a lot of active KDF or Republic officers now but that is because the IC fleet is so very Federation-centric.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Winters on May 19, 2014 7:59:45 GMT
What other reason is there to assemble a huge battlefleet? What reasoning makes it ok to amass a large armada like that in a peaceful region, looming over its diplomatic center? Its bad policy to expose people to a massive buildup like that, saying it might be for maybe later, juuuust in case, etc. Noone will believe that.
Equal footing? Neither KDF nor Roms could supply forces that far away from home permanently. They'd have to rely on fed supplies, so that leashes them.
Still uncomfy as hell switching to full battlefleet status, even if we got like 80% warships already.. why triple that.. in the center of peace of all places..
If its just so you can bring a kdf soldier to an rp ship, that wouldnt need that much changes at all. Peace treaty, open exchange of personnel, et voila. Same for sending a few ships to support 146th. Doesnt need a change, we already do that with the Roms. Just allow KDF too. Where's the need for these drastic changes coming from?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2014 13:19:57 GMT
Part of this that I don't understand is why everyone is assuming every arm of the Joint factions forces would be dedicated to the Iconians. Sure yes they are the big looming threat we're working together for but there are still dozens of other threats out there. Assuming that any joint group would have to be dedicated to fighting Iconians is in my opinion narrow-minded and silly. The Beta Ursae is a central point for peaceful relations between the three factions in a real and symbolic way because none of them hold sway over that region for one; and secondly because symbolically it's where they've worked together before. DS9 is a huge Focal point for diplomatic endeavors, trade, commerce, etc. Thinking that it wont be a target in any upcoming war is crazy. So sure it's far away from each empire. That makes it more appealing because it puts all three powers on equal footing. We also seem to forget the fact that Starbase 146 is not the 146th only waypoint. They have a Spire in the Solinae Sphere which gives them access to the Tau Dewa Sector with relative ease. Not to mention the Embassy & Cracking Station 47. Klingons/Romulans/Fed got together on DS9 because of the Dominion threat and the fact that it was right there at the worm whole. The assumptions are coming from the fact that this idea isn't entirely understood. I think we all get the goal of getting all three factions to RP together but we need it to make sense and have a solid understanding of how it would work. Just because it can be done in game we still need to make sure it makes sense RP wise.
|
|
|
Post by firebringeraxel on May 19, 2014 15:33:44 GMT
Equal footing? Neither KDF nor Roms could supply forces that far away from home permanently. They'd have to rely on fed supplies, so that leashes them. Deep Space 9 is quite close to Klingon space. And as for the Romulans they are furthest away but they are also in the most secure position because they were allied to both powers before this cease-fire and they were already receiving supplies from the other two factions as they are a fledgling nation with little infrastructure so far ( A fact that the game naturally makes light of but alas what do we expect from a game that is effectively "War Trek"). If they had so much trouble getting supplies there then the Romulan Empire would have been in big trouble during the Dominion war b/c Romulus was even further away back then. This is of course not to even go back to the "plot-device" that is Transwarp gate system. Fact is all three powers have them and they make getting supplies where they are needed in a pinch a non-problem instantly.
|
|
|
Post by hszmv on May 20, 2014 2:56:53 GMT
Alright... So there are some OOC matters to discuss.
First is the mission:
Nothing is changing. We are still the support fleet and we still engage in missions all over the place (we've never limited ourselves to BU before, we won't now.)
We are also not Supreme Allied Headquarters for the Alliance... just like we weren't the HQ for the entirety of Starfleet. I would imagine that would be located on Khitomer proper... and staffed with NPC leadership... just like how we handled Quinn.
We are not mobilizing into a front line battle fleet nor are we moving the fleet to another part of the alpha quadrant. The 146th fleet remains dedicated to the same causes and missions as ever... just now we have Klingons and Romulans as well.
Command:
There is no change to command... and it would be no different than if the 146th got an influx of new Starfleet Starships. Again, the change is still designed to open up the fleet only. The CO of 146th is still just in charge of the 146th and is still our highest ranked IC title and is still in control of just one fleet HQed out of Starbase 146. The only differences is now some of the ships are made by Klingons and Romulans... which have been parking there from time to time as is.
OOC Fleet:
This does not affect the fleet Out of Character. We are still holding true the philoposy of playing what character you want to play. If you feel your character would not work with a joint duty fleet, you are certainly welcome to play him or her or it as part of a different organization. This will not change that philosiphy and we will not force anyone who does not wish to be a part of this to join. We never forced anyone into the 146th as a condition of playing with us, and we aren't about to start now.
Why are the Pathfinders discussing this:
To understand some of our reasons, we have to take you back to pre-starbase/pre-storytellers eras. Back then, we were STORP and one of the things we RPed as commanding was Deep Space 9. Because DS9 was a joint opperation center, it allowed for people interested in playing KDF toons to join the bar chat and easily get in on Joint Duties. The Klingon side regularly aided the Federation and worked with them. But everything changed when the Dental attacked...
Okay, so the release of Starbases helped too. The combination of the two elements drove the fleet inwards and they stayed in the Starbase... which our allied Klingon players couldn't join. While the KDF fleet wasn't as strong as the Fed fleet, they were active until they were forced to schism. There have been a number of attempts to help out, but it's been rather dry. Klingons are not an attractive play option for our fleet because they cannot be as involved
At the same time, the release of Romulans seems to have generated a similar problem: People who want to play Romulans but feel left out because the 146th fleet, the main story action, has become a Feddie only club of late. In striving with the core tennats of inclusion this Fleet is famous for, as well as a history of peaceful interaction with multiple IC factions, the Pathfinders felt that the recently annouced ceasefire/peace treaty should be the impotus to rededicate ourselves to that inclusion. These are changes we are trying to work around so we can allow players who wish to play Romulan and Klingon officers a chance to play them inside the 146th, not on the outside looking in.
We felt that such a change to an IC element was indeed much to big for us to decree, hence the vote. The Khitomer Alliance is just an IC attempt to change the status quo enough to be further inclusive and nothing more.
We wanted to handle the IC staffing of KDF and Romulan Leadership after the initial vote was cast because we would be making an IC storyline to bring the Khitomer Alliance into being, at which point these details will be handled.
I hope this answers all of your questions. If it doesn't feel free to ask.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Winters on May 20, 2014 3:26:34 GMT
The only thing this doesn't answer is why Vil should move to a higher office, vacating the 146th Command spot, if you want stuff to just sign up -with- the 146th, that step isn't needed, is it?
I see two directions leading there and to me it looks like it's still undecided if we should a) have 3 fleets under one new office coordinating them, or b) integrate parts of the KDF and Rom fleets into the 146th and not need the new office because Vil already is boss of that.
I myself would prefer the second option, because it's easier and kinda feels more flexible in the future, even if it is conservative. Like if Season 10 or 11 had one of the factions go rogue again and the peace shattered, we could react better to it IC since it wouldn't mean losing one of three merged fleets in a huge exodus, but only the "imported personnel" to lose ties to home, enabling them to stay if they want - or of course go back help their empire too. It gives them a choice and doesn#t tie them to Cryptic's storyline so much.
Somehow your vote -seems- more focussed on "a" than "b". Which is a lot of work in comparison and kinda fixates things a lot if we don#t handle it well enough.. that's why all the questions came up on this end.
|
|