tewha7
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You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
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Post by tewha7 on Jul 9, 2016 19:24:23 GMT
I have not mentioned this to any of the leaders yet, and I probably won't have time before I gonon vacation in a couple days. And it's not a staycation. From a ingame/RP point of view, I think the Agents of Yesterday storyline is a mess. However, I think we have an opportunity as players to potentially bring a ship from the 23rd century. Of course, that's a ship not a single captain... plenty of space for hundreds of crew, and all the player characters we desire. Presumably, they'd go to SFA for a special catch-up program. But I could also see that special training program being done somewhere other than SFA for political reasons. Characters created going forward could also share this backstory. What do you guys think of this? Is anyone interested in taking the little bits of AoY we can use, mixing them up just a little, and folding them into new characters as a single ship to not stretch credibility as much?
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tewha7
Member
You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
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Post by tewha7 on Jul 9, 2016 19:32:36 GMT
Reading this again, I don't think it's clear what I'm proposing.
So:
* I am NOT proposing a new RP ship. * I am NOT proposing a new training session (anywhere). * This has nothing to do with Daniels or intentional time travel.
What I am proposing:
* We decide on a single ship to have been pushed from the 23rd century to the 25th. * We establish that the crew of this ship moved forward together, though they may not all know each other. It's a starship, not a shuttlecraft. * We play the characters from there. Presumably, some of the characters might end up on a single ship. But some might end up anywhere else in Starfleet (or civilian life).
Edit: For a name, I suggest the USS Melbourne. It's one of the random names, and a quick search reveals the name was used in Star Trek as an Excelsior-class ship as part of the Best of Both Worlds debris field. This ship was later used in a cut scene from Emissary and an assimilated crewmember was used in Voyager. None of this precludes an earlier Utility Cruiser or even Constitution class bearing the name.
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Post by greeneagle346 on Jul 10, 2016 16:27:02 GMT
I think it is a potential idea, and definitely worth the folks taking a look at. My idea for my AoY character was just that genetically she got the (probably genetically recessive now) older style andorian look. But this has merit as a potential backstory too.
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tewha7
Member
You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
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Post by tewha7 on Jul 11, 2016 2:58:04 GMT
Yeah. My thinking mostly is that if we decide characters are going to be thrown forward, it makes sense to do so in one ship. It's a lot more credible than 20 different ships.
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tewha7
Member
You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
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Post by tewha7 on Jul 25, 2016 15:02:34 GMT
So I'm back from vacation, yay! After some input, I'm going with Obereth(-ish) class ship. That nicely evades the whole "where did that come from?" of the utility cruiser/Pioneer class. If anyone has any ideas on how a ship could be thrown forward in time the least heroically way possible, but still in a way that kills about half the crew, lemme know.
What I have so far is that the Melbourne was basically a pre-Obereth Obereth class, which Starfleet decided not to finish after it flunked a bunch of tests with flying colors. But a few years after the Obereth was built, they found a cost effective way to refit the Melbourne up to Obereth class. So I have an old, somewhat hackish starship with a stubborn crew.
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Post by miller11b on Jul 25, 2016 17:48:26 GMT
Well, if you're looking TOS era, I'd recommend using either a Saladin- or a Hermes-class ship. Obereth wouldn't be a bad idea either if you want to go film era. As for the plausibility, natural wormhole opened while the ship was in warp and sent it forward, but because of the rocky transition the ship was damaged and there were hull breaches, etc.
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tewha7
Member
You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
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Post by tewha7 on Jul 25, 2016 20:04:34 GMT
First, don't take any of this as dismissive. In fact, THANK YOU for your input. Do you know of any good sources for introduction dates? If we know the Hermes- or Saladin-class were out before the Obereth, that would definitely be enough to push me towards one of them. But as far as I know, the Obereth simply appeared onscreen in Star Trek III without an age for the ship or class, and none of these classes have introduction dates. Do you happen to have one of the tech books that talks about this? (Mine are all packed up, and I never had many to begin with.) I like the wormhole idea. I think I'll combine it with TMP and say something in the warp drive was misaligned, maybe after a brief battle. My intent here is the ship to have disappeared after the events of TOS/TAS, but before TMP. That's a little later than AoY is leaning, but I like the idea of being able to include the whole of TOS. The ship disappeared late enough that the Enterprise's badge is used on all ships, but early enough that nobody was wearing those awful TMP uniforms yet. Edit: Now that I think about it, I think there was line art of the Saladin class was included in Ballantine Books' 1975 Star Trek: Star Fleet Technical Manual. The Obereth was not. That means Ballantine Books considered the Saladin a TOS-era ship. In the absence of anything better, I'll go along with Ballantine Books and make the change. (I can't believe I remembered that.) Interesting trivia: We may have that book to thank for Star Trek: The Next Phase, which was ultimately pivoted into Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
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Post by miller11b on Jul 26, 2016 1:37:42 GMT
Memory Alpha and Memory Beta are the best sources for anything Trek, Alpha being the onscreen cannon and Beta being everything else. Saladin and Hermes are both in Franz Joseph's "Starfleet Technical Manual". As far as the Obereth is concerned, it's not hard to say that they were being phased in after TAS. If I recall correctly, that's the same timeframe that the Miranda went into service.
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tewha7
Member
You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
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Post by tewha7 on Jul 26, 2016 2:49:39 GMT
Yeah, I don't fully accept that the Obereth was phased in after TAS. It could have predated the Constitution, even. It's not like we saw anything much of anything in TOS. They didn't have much in the way of Starfleet ships.
However, Saladin is a better choice if we accept that technical manual. Which I do. I loved that old technical manual. I'll crib from it, gladly!
Thank you!
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Post by miller11b on Jul 26, 2016 3:32:34 GMT
That's what I do. I drink and make up stuff. In all serious, no problem. If you're looking for more ideas, lemme know, apparently I'm good at them. We really should get our glorious leaders to take a position on this sometime reletively soonish though, I'm sure people are getting antsy.
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kiso
Member
One-shotted Rebecca Simmons. What chance have YOU got?
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Post by kiso on Jul 26, 2016 12:27:27 GMT
On the discussion of ship class, the pathfinder of the Oberth class, the aptly named U.S.S. Oberth, has a very low registry number, clocking in at NCC-602. This would seem to indicate, to me at least, that the class predates TOS by a substantial amount, as there would've been almost a thousand Starfleet ships commissioned between it and the TOS Enterprise. I'd speculate the Oberth was introduced alongside the Daedalus, but unlike the Daedalus, underwent a class wide refit, similar to the Constitution. Memory Beta gives a rough introduction date of the Oberth as 2250, but since the U.S.S. Constitution, NX/NCC-1700, was launched in 2244, I highly doubt the '2250' year would be acceptable for Oberth's launch. So, my speculation is the Oberth is technically, a Pre-TOS, but post-ENT ship, refitted somewhere along the line.
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tewha7
Member
You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
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Post by tewha7 on Jul 26, 2016 15:11:35 GMT
Their intent with the numbering rules was that number divided by 100 indicates the class, and the remainder indicates the ship. 1701 indicates the first non-prototype of the Constitution class (17). That would make the USS Constitution, if it exists, the NX-something or NCC-1700. This does not imply that the previous class had 100 ships: The 1700 doesn't prove the existence of the 1699. And to just pick registry numbers out of the air the NCC-1703 doesn't prove the existence of the NCC-1702; the most we can say is that the NCC-1702 was probably contracted. The project might have failed. (Argh, contracted is the wrong word. Commissioned? Proposed?) There's also not a guarantee that the 500 series came before the 600 series, for instance. The 500 series could have never left the proposal stage, and the series reused later. But it's hard to imagine the 500 or 600 series being used after the 1700 series. That's 11 or 12 classes. Those rules were never on screen and got violated a few hundred times later, so we can't count on them, but I think for historical purposes they're interesting. (One of the PocketBooks novels, and it might have been Final Frontier, posits that the Constitution underwent enough changes to be re-registered as the Enterprise. It's non-cannon, but I like that theory.) (Additional aside: I have my problems with Roddenberry's stewardship of Star Trek, but he obsessed over stuff like this and I miss that.) That registry number, 602, sharing the name of the class is what gave me the idea for a failed class prototype 600. The new class prototype would have been NX-601, and it's easy to imagine that became NCC-602 due to additional changes down the line. (It's also easy to imagine the NX-600 became the NX-601 and later the NCC-602, but that's less fun for my purposes.) But I honestly just love Franz Joseph's artwork. Always have. Having typed all that: Did the Saladin class USS Saladin (which would have been NX/NCC-500) ever appear on screen? If not, maybe I should use Saladin herself. I should also mention that if a fleet leader wants to reign this in, I'm doing this in public and won't be offended. I can also do this independent of the fleet if they're worried about it negatively impacting fleet canon. I'm just throwing ideas out here, not trying to cause trouble. Now, a few more ideas. I mention the ship would have been lost somewhere between TOS/TAS and TMP. That helps makes some decisions for us, which I'll enumerate here: * We have TOS bridges. Rationale: We have access to these ingame. We don't have TMP bridges. Mitigating: We're unlikely to actually use these much, though it's useful for holodeck and perhaps one day playing out their final mission. * We have TOS style uniforms. Rationale: All TOS characters get TOS uniforms, but not TMP uniforms. At least not for free. And while we could justify the TOS or TMP uniforms being use between TOS and TMP, we can't justify the WoK uniforms. Mitigating: Again, we're unlikely to actually use these much. * We use Enterprise NCC-1701 patches. Rationale: We know somewhere between TOS and TMP Starfleet switched to the lightspeed graph chevron used on the Enterprise uniforms. By deciding it happened before our ship was lost, we avoid all possible conflicts. (And some of these logos aren't available on all uniforms, some are ugly, etc.) Mitigating: Again, we're unlikely to actually use these much.
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Post by miller11b on Jul 26, 2016 16:33:09 GMT
With he exception of a few Constitution-class ships, none of Joseph's ships appeared in cannon, except as schematics on the bridge of the Enterprise during "wrath of Khan" and "Search for Spock." It is my understanding that there have been references to a few in some of the novels, but I cannot confirm this off the top of my head. The only exception I personally am aware of is the Saladin-class U.S.S. Longbow, which is a ship I was writing about a few years back, so all I ask is you don't use that ship
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tewha7
Member
You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
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Post by tewha7 on Jul 26, 2016 18:24:50 GMT
Not to worry. Easily done. Off the top of my head: Joseph's ships feature heavily in Dreadnaught and Battlestations. These are imperfect books, but they top my list anyway for Dreadnaught's explanation of the fate of the Dreadnaught class (think Vengeance from Star Trek Into Darkness without Khan and you're reasonably close) and Battlestations' horrifying entry into transwarp lore.
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