"So you want to play..." Part II, Engineering and Operations
Apr 26, 2014 3:22:13 GMT
Chris Winters likes this
Post by Geralyn on Apr 26, 2014 3:22:13 GMT
A Brainstorming Session by Geralyn and Ayche
As you might recall, a little while ago HSZMV and I did a bit of brainstorming over how to better involve and engage characters of the science and medical professions. The responses were particularly and delightfully thoughtful, and certainly helpful. With that in mind, I figured why not expand the thought to the other career tracks in STO? Has there been cases where a GM or player has found it difficult to engage an engineer, or operations officer? Or, do GMs or players find themselves in a rut as to how to engage such characters?
Again, you'd think there wouldn't be an issue with either of these occupations. Engineering is what keeps the fleet hardware in working order, and Operations handles everything from logistics to power management to transporters to provisions to... you get the idea. What difficulties might a player or GM stumble into?
For this brainstorming, I grabbed the ear of Ayche, a longtime veteran of STO and the fleet, for his insight into the roleplaying aspect of the topic. And like last time, I posted the conversation here, so you can follow the train of thought as we mulled it over.
[9:51] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: So, with the last post on the Science/Medical idea getting such mindful and creative responses, we figured to do the other tracks...
[9:51] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Specifically, creative ways to engage Engineers or...Operations, who I don't see many IC characters for.
[9:51] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Operations can be difficult. Engineering's far easier.
[9:52] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: From what I can see in canon, plus the Star Trek tabletop RPG, Operations seems to be the largest department on a ship.
[9:53] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Transporters, quartermasters, provisioning, power distribution...
[9:53] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That's only because Operations is an overlapping station, and the fact that they have their fingers in a lot of the little things that go on behind the scenes.
[9:54] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: So is this diversity of duty something that can be exploited for more engagement in an RP?
[9:54] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: The only purely Ops character I know of is my own, SIx's chief of Ops, Natima Ocett. Are there others in the fleet I'm not seeing?
[9:55] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: HS plays Ops on the Avalon. Vasco plays Ops on the Exodus.
[9:55] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: So we have dedicated Ops characters. How difficult is it to bring their profession into RP?
[9:56] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: The thing with Ops is - If you have an engineer to monitor power allocation, a science officer monitoring sensors, a tactical officer dealing with combat, and a CONN officer manning the helm, all that's>
[9:56] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: really left for Operations is transporters and Comms. And as we've seen in canon, Tactical usually deals with Comms.
[9:57] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: On the other hand, if the science officer doesn't show up? Ops can cover.
[9:57] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Can they also cover for Tactical?
[9:58] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: They can, in theory, cover any station that's missing someone.
[9:58] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That's why it's mentioned that Ops is the fast track to captain.
[9:58] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Because you learn a little bit of everything when it comes to the workings of a starship.
[9:58] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Have you seen any creative ways people have engaged Ops characters? Or played them?
[10:00] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Like any other class, one of the best things I've seen an OPS officer do is keep themselves occupied. Mention where non-essential energy's being transferred to, checking records, etc. The easiest way>
[10:01] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: to give an OPS officer something to do is have a way for one of the main staff to not be there. Cover for the engineer when he's on an away team. Cover Tactical if the chief gets injured.
[10:02] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Hadn't thought of the away team angle. The injured crewman idea works, too, though it can't happen too often.
[10:03] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: The main issue so far as I've seen, Operations Officers in canon have been both Operations, and Science. Both Data and Harry Kim worked in both capacities, for the most part, as there weren't Chief>
[10:03] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Science officers aboard.
[10:04] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Operations can also be used to monitor internal sensors, freeing up the Science team to just watch externals.
[10:04] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Do you think there have been cases where Ops was utilized in a scientific capacity, where it stepped on a Science character's toes?
[10:05] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Yes. In fact, back when we were first starting to do RP ships there was a lot of confusion as to the line between Science and Operations.
[10:06] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: And just a thought, another way one might work the Operations angle is to have them be put to work along side the other crewmen on projects. A science thing needs done? Put the Chief, and Operations>
[10:06] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: on it.
[10:06] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Wow, now there's an unexpected insight on the plight of the Science characters.
[10:07] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: In truth, we've only seen 2 proper 'Chief of science' roles on a starship. T'pal, who also acted as diplomatic envoy, and Spock, who was also first officer.
[10:08] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And I remember reading that Data, since he didn't have to sleep and could multitask like a pro, was the chief Science officer, in Operations, AND the Second Officer all at once.
[10:08] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Exactly.
[10:08] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: And Harry Kim, as I said, worked as both Science and Ops. Though Voyager's a hard one, as everyone seemed to do a little science...
[10:09] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: So separation of department duties would help in a ship RP, and help individuals with their freeform RP, it seems.
[10:09] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: but, then, you realize that, with as big a field as it is...unless it's a science ship, the Science Officer has little to do other then monitor sensors.
[10:09] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Unless, of course, they need to use a plot device science escape.
[10:10] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Because everyone in Starfleet seems to be a scientist, in their own way.
[10:11] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Goes back to tewha7's observation that 'generalists are main cast, specialists are guest stars', don't it?
[10:11] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Exactly.
[10:11] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Stuff to be aware of for both career tracks...
[10:11] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: So, yes. If we can define roles, that might help...but then the issue might come when the defines roles are...limited.
[10:12] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Be interesting to see where the comments go on this post. The more ideas the better.
[10:12] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: From memory alpha: Science officers were responsible for observing and theorizing explanations for strange or seemingly unexplainable circumstances.
[10:13] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: In the 22nd and 23rd centuries, the science officer was responsible for sensor readings.
[10:13] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: They did a lot more exploring, in those eras. Which may be part of the issue where things overlap now. Far less exploring, generally.
[10:13] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Very much so.
[10:14] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: But still, reading that...I understand completely why the writers chose to combine Shipboard Operations with Science.
[10:14] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: It expanded the role.
[10:15] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: If you think about it, they did the same with TOS. Spock was also First Officer. Two roles for one character.
[10:15] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Yep. And I believe T'Pal was also Archer's first officer.
[10:15] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Now, Engineers (my personal favorite) seems easily engaged, at times. They keep the ship running. But there's got to be more than "the engines cannae take it anymore, Cap'n"
[10:15] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Something an OPS officer can do to stand out, is be proactive.
[10:16] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Backing up one second to that bit..."proactive"?
[10:16] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: If the captain orders weapon's charged, post that you are monitoring energy flow to the phaser banks.
[10:16] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Scans? Make sure the sensor grid is getting the energy it needs to function. Monitor relief crews when damage is done.
[10:17] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Ooh, I like that. The player would need to be aware of the duties expected, and when they came into play, but yes. That would be a good start.
[10:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Be the voice from the bridge, if no one else is.
[10:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Captain wants a ship-wide comm? Ops. Captain asks someone to check on a patient? Ops.
[10:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: It's lots of little things.
[10:18] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: That's genius. I like that.
[10:18] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: But then we need the definitive lines drawn.
[10:18] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Which, hopefully, this will help do.
[10:18] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And those lines of course, are going to vary from GM to GM.
[10:19] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Now, on to engineers. I played the Chief Engineer on a ship a long time ago. I've worked as the GM with some fantastic engineers, as well.
[10:19] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: The Chief engineer should be the easiest to play. No, it's not all 'we don't have enough power'. It's problem solving.
[10:20] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: When I GMed for Avalon, I loved it when my Chief Engineer threw a wrench into something by stating that there was a malfunction.
[10:20] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: There's more to engineers than the engine room. We've seen canon examples, with something as simple as Scotty replacing consoles in an outpost facility.
[10:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Of course. One issue I've seen recently, especially on RP ships, is we have a Chief, but no other staff.
[10:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: A good Engineering room has more staff.
[10:21] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And better to have PCs than NPCs, I'd think.
[10:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Exactly.
[10:22] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: How many RP ships have more than the chief? I know the Academy training vessel does.
[10:22] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That might be the only one, anymore.
[10:22] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Again, Avalon, when I started it the ship was full. We had...3 or 4 engineers, including the Chief.
[10:23] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Considering how well the engineers play off of each other in Academy maybe that should be revisited, or at least considered, for the other RP ships.
[10:23] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I rarely had to send them a thing. @keroji, who played the chief, was keeping them quite busy. You could sit the whole time and read just Engineering Deck.
[10:23] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Can you pinpoint any reason why there's been a decline?
[10:23] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: People want to play head roles.
[10:24] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That's the only thing I can think of that would be a reason.
[10:24] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I know I've seen plenty of variety in what engineers can do IC.
[10:24] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: They don't want to be O'brien, or Barclay. They want to be Geordie.
[10:24] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I've seen engineers sent crawling through little-used jeffries tubes to track down a break in a power conduit.
[10:24] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: At least as far as RP ships go.
[10:25] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: But it's just a theory, so don't quote me on it...oh, wait. You are quoting me XD
[10:25] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I know it's not strictly the same, being in a flight deck crew, but I had a lot of fun NOT playing the deck chief. Little M'rrree was a lot of fun.
[10:26] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Like I said, it's all based on the people around you.
[10:26] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: She'd be given orders to fix something, she would disappear into an opening nobody should have been able to fit into...
[10:26] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: And it helped that you had a strong leader.
[10:27] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Perhaps that's part of it. If someone's going to be a chief engineer, they have to also be able to lead the RP on that deck?
[10:27] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Which takes a lot of the pressure off of the GM.
[10:28] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And it wouldn't be much pressure on the chief, either. It's like the party leader in a tabletop RPG session.
[10:28] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Yep. And, on the flip side, a GM should be able to trust their players enough that they can give the Chief a problem, and then just let them run free to solve it.
[10:29] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Oh, and knowing how to put together technobabble helps...
[10:29] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Yep! I can babble with the best of them. Er...o.O
[10:30] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I had a bit of an advantage, having done training with Electrical systems. I knew how to assemble words to make them sound...techy.
[10:30] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: If you can do that? You're golden. Oh...and stealing from the show from time to time, too...
[10:30] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: All engineers borrow secrets from their buddies.
[10:30] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Which brings up something I ran into. If you know real world engineering, can that also be a hindrance to Trek RP?
[10:31] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Things that just 'work' in Star Trek, suddenly being disputed because 'Real science doesn't do that'?
>>Brief interruption while Ayche answers a RL phone call<<
[11:07] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: In answer to your question, personally...I'd say no. I'm enough of an imaginative person, myself, that I can let a bit of handwavium in.
[11:08] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: One of a roleplayer's most valuable substances, above even latinum: Handwavium, right alongside Unobtanium and Applied Phlebotinum...
[11:09] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Now, how about interesting ways to engage an engineer, besides warp coils and plasma conduits?
[11:09] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Alien tech. A glitch in a computer system. Building a new prototype.
[11:10] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I've always thought programming fell under Engineering, though some argue it's a science thing.
[11:11] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I'm feel the same. Though there is no doubt some programming would occur with Science.
[11:12] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: True, like in real life, FORTRAN has been the main programming language for scientific applications, if I'm remembering correctly.
[11:12] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: But system programming, OS development, and such would be an engineer's realm.
[11:13] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: yep.
[11:13] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: What are the more creative ways you've seen engineers played/engaged in RP?
[11:15] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: One engineer was a Xenotechnological expert. He was a Chief, so he knew his main stuff, but his whole deal was dealing with non-standard technology, learning it, studying it.
[11:16] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I gave Geralyn here an IC quirk, where she can 'speak' in machine code, so she can 'write' a program by dictating it when her hands are working on another problem.
[11:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That's a bit different.
[11:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Or engineers that are particularly small, so they can get into places.
[11:17] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: But she'll use it to converse with a ship's computer if she's by herself, or doesn't want someone to understand what she's doing.
[11:18] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: For example, "53 61 79 20 48 65 6c 6c 6f 20 74 6f 20 4d 79 20 4c 69 74 74 6c 65 20 46 72 69 65 6e 64"
[11:18] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Means "Say Hello to My Little Friend"
[11:18] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: ...Riiiiight...
[11:19] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: The 'small engineer in small places' concept was my deck crew character from Independence. I loved watching the chief's reactions when she would disappear into the fighters.
[11:20] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Which reflects back on the whole 'having others around helps' motif.
[11:21] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And that's a concept that would apply across all three career tracks, wouldn't it?
[11:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I would think so, yes.
[11:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: having someone of the same branch to bounce ideas and thoughts off of.
[11:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Camaraderie.
[11:24] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Looking back on this talk, can you think of any other ways to help improve or enhance RP for the engineers and Ops characters, either for players or GMs to be mindful of?
[11:24] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I can't really think of too much more, myself. I think I've made all the points I can consider.
[11:25] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And you've made some good ones. I feel I learned a bit more about Ops tonight that will help when I play my Ops character.
[11:25] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I'm glad.
As you can see, there's a lot going on for both careers, and the unexpected bonus of this discussion was the insight into how overlapping capabilities can affect other professions. There may in fact be some benefit in more clearly defining and separating the duties of each post.
Once again, this is by no means a complete discussion or resolution on the topic, but the start of what we hope is a dialog on the matter, to see what other solutions or ideas people come up with.
So if you have ideas, or have seen interesting ways people have engaged Engineering or Operations characters either as player or GM in various RPs, post them in the comments. Ideas, questions, suggestions, or stories of personal experience where the GM sought to involve the Engineering or Operations officers, and did a Grade A showing of it. We'd love to hear your thoughts!
As you might recall, a little while ago HSZMV and I did a bit of brainstorming over how to better involve and engage characters of the science and medical professions. The responses were particularly and delightfully thoughtful, and certainly helpful. With that in mind, I figured why not expand the thought to the other career tracks in STO? Has there been cases where a GM or player has found it difficult to engage an engineer, or operations officer? Or, do GMs or players find themselves in a rut as to how to engage such characters?
Again, you'd think there wouldn't be an issue with either of these occupations. Engineering is what keeps the fleet hardware in working order, and Operations handles everything from logistics to power management to transporters to provisions to... you get the idea. What difficulties might a player or GM stumble into?
For this brainstorming, I grabbed the ear of Ayche, a longtime veteran of STO and the fleet, for his insight into the roleplaying aspect of the topic. And like last time, I posted the conversation here, so you can follow the train of thought as we mulled it over.
[9:51] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: So, with the last post on the Science/Medical idea getting such mindful and creative responses, we figured to do the other tracks...
[9:51] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Specifically, creative ways to engage Engineers or...Operations, who I don't see many IC characters for.
[9:51] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Operations can be difficult. Engineering's far easier.
[9:52] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: From what I can see in canon, plus the Star Trek tabletop RPG, Operations seems to be the largest department on a ship.
[9:53] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Transporters, quartermasters, provisioning, power distribution...
[9:53] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That's only because Operations is an overlapping station, and the fact that they have their fingers in a lot of the little things that go on behind the scenes.
[9:54] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: So is this diversity of duty something that can be exploited for more engagement in an RP?
[9:54] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: The only purely Ops character I know of is my own, SIx's chief of Ops, Natima Ocett. Are there others in the fleet I'm not seeing?
[9:55] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: HS plays Ops on the Avalon. Vasco plays Ops on the Exodus.
[9:55] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: So we have dedicated Ops characters. How difficult is it to bring their profession into RP?
[9:56] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: The thing with Ops is - If you have an engineer to monitor power allocation, a science officer monitoring sensors, a tactical officer dealing with combat, and a CONN officer manning the helm, all that's>
[9:56] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: really left for Operations is transporters and Comms. And as we've seen in canon, Tactical usually deals with Comms.
[9:57] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: On the other hand, if the science officer doesn't show up? Ops can cover.
[9:57] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Can they also cover for Tactical?
[9:58] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: They can, in theory, cover any station that's missing someone.
[9:58] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That's why it's mentioned that Ops is the fast track to captain.
[9:58] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Because you learn a little bit of everything when it comes to the workings of a starship.
[9:58] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Have you seen any creative ways people have engaged Ops characters? Or played them?
[10:00] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Like any other class, one of the best things I've seen an OPS officer do is keep themselves occupied. Mention where non-essential energy's being transferred to, checking records, etc. The easiest way>
[10:01] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: to give an OPS officer something to do is have a way for one of the main staff to not be there. Cover for the engineer when he's on an away team. Cover Tactical if the chief gets injured.
[10:02] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Hadn't thought of the away team angle. The injured crewman idea works, too, though it can't happen too often.
[10:03] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: The main issue so far as I've seen, Operations Officers in canon have been both Operations, and Science. Both Data and Harry Kim worked in both capacities, for the most part, as there weren't Chief>
[10:03] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Science officers aboard.
[10:04] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Operations can also be used to monitor internal sensors, freeing up the Science team to just watch externals.
[10:04] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Do you think there have been cases where Ops was utilized in a scientific capacity, where it stepped on a Science character's toes?
[10:05] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Yes. In fact, back when we were first starting to do RP ships there was a lot of confusion as to the line between Science and Operations.
[10:06] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: And just a thought, another way one might work the Operations angle is to have them be put to work along side the other crewmen on projects. A science thing needs done? Put the Chief, and Operations>
[10:06] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: on it.
[10:06] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Wow, now there's an unexpected insight on the plight of the Science characters.
[10:07] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: In truth, we've only seen 2 proper 'Chief of science' roles on a starship. T'pal, who also acted as diplomatic envoy, and Spock, who was also first officer.
[10:08] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And I remember reading that Data, since he didn't have to sleep and could multitask like a pro, was the chief Science officer, in Operations, AND the Second Officer all at once.
[10:08] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Exactly.
[10:08] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: And Harry Kim, as I said, worked as both Science and Ops. Though Voyager's a hard one, as everyone seemed to do a little science...
[10:09] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: So separation of department duties would help in a ship RP, and help individuals with their freeform RP, it seems.
[10:09] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: but, then, you realize that, with as big a field as it is...unless it's a science ship, the Science Officer has little to do other then monitor sensors.
[10:09] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Unless, of course, they need to use a plot device science escape.
[10:10] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Because everyone in Starfleet seems to be a scientist, in their own way.
[10:11] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Goes back to tewha7's observation that 'generalists are main cast, specialists are guest stars', don't it?
[10:11] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Exactly.
[10:11] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Stuff to be aware of for both career tracks...
[10:11] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: So, yes. If we can define roles, that might help...but then the issue might come when the defines roles are...limited.
[10:12] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Be interesting to see where the comments go on this post. The more ideas the better.
[10:12] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: From memory alpha: Science officers were responsible for observing and theorizing explanations for strange or seemingly unexplainable circumstances.
[10:13] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: In the 22nd and 23rd centuries, the science officer was responsible for sensor readings.
[10:13] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: They did a lot more exploring, in those eras. Which may be part of the issue where things overlap now. Far less exploring, generally.
[10:13] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Very much so.
[10:14] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: But still, reading that...I understand completely why the writers chose to combine Shipboard Operations with Science.
[10:14] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: It expanded the role.
[10:15] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: If you think about it, they did the same with TOS. Spock was also First Officer. Two roles for one character.
[10:15] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Yep. And I believe T'Pal was also Archer's first officer.
[10:15] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Now, Engineers (my personal favorite) seems easily engaged, at times. They keep the ship running. But there's got to be more than "the engines cannae take it anymore, Cap'n"
[10:15] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Something an OPS officer can do to stand out, is be proactive.
[10:16] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Backing up one second to that bit..."proactive"?
[10:16] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: If the captain orders weapon's charged, post that you are monitoring energy flow to the phaser banks.
[10:16] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Scans? Make sure the sensor grid is getting the energy it needs to function. Monitor relief crews when damage is done.
[10:17] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Ooh, I like that. The player would need to be aware of the duties expected, and when they came into play, but yes. That would be a good start.
[10:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Be the voice from the bridge, if no one else is.
[10:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Captain wants a ship-wide comm? Ops. Captain asks someone to check on a patient? Ops.
[10:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: It's lots of little things.
[10:18] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: That's genius. I like that.
[10:18] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: But then we need the definitive lines drawn.
[10:18] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Which, hopefully, this will help do.
[10:18] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And those lines of course, are going to vary from GM to GM.
[10:19] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Now, on to engineers. I played the Chief Engineer on a ship a long time ago. I've worked as the GM with some fantastic engineers, as well.
[10:19] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: The Chief engineer should be the easiest to play. No, it's not all 'we don't have enough power'. It's problem solving.
[10:20] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: When I GMed for Avalon, I loved it when my Chief Engineer threw a wrench into something by stating that there was a malfunction.
[10:20] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: There's more to engineers than the engine room. We've seen canon examples, with something as simple as Scotty replacing consoles in an outpost facility.
[10:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Of course. One issue I've seen recently, especially on RP ships, is we have a Chief, but no other staff.
[10:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: A good Engineering room has more staff.
[10:21] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And better to have PCs than NPCs, I'd think.
[10:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Exactly.
[10:22] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: How many RP ships have more than the chief? I know the Academy training vessel does.
[10:22] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That might be the only one, anymore.
[10:22] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Again, Avalon, when I started it the ship was full. We had...3 or 4 engineers, including the Chief.
[10:23] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Considering how well the engineers play off of each other in Academy maybe that should be revisited, or at least considered, for the other RP ships.
[10:23] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I rarely had to send them a thing. @keroji, who played the chief, was keeping them quite busy. You could sit the whole time and read just Engineering Deck.
[10:23] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Can you pinpoint any reason why there's been a decline?
[10:23] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: People want to play head roles.
[10:24] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That's the only thing I can think of that would be a reason.
[10:24] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I know I've seen plenty of variety in what engineers can do IC.
[10:24] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: They don't want to be O'brien, or Barclay. They want to be Geordie.
[10:24] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I've seen engineers sent crawling through little-used jeffries tubes to track down a break in a power conduit.
[10:24] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: At least as far as RP ships go.
[10:25] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: But it's just a theory, so don't quote me on it...oh, wait. You are quoting me XD
[10:25] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I know it's not strictly the same, being in a flight deck crew, but I had a lot of fun NOT playing the deck chief. Little M'rrree was a lot of fun.
[10:26] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Like I said, it's all based on the people around you.
[10:26] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: She'd be given orders to fix something, she would disappear into an opening nobody should have been able to fit into...
[10:26] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: And it helped that you had a strong leader.
[10:27] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Perhaps that's part of it. If someone's going to be a chief engineer, they have to also be able to lead the RP on that deck?
[10:27] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Which takes a lot of the pressure off of the GM.
[10:28] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And it wouldn't be much pressure on the chief, either. It's like the party leader in a tabletop RPG session.
[10:28] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Yep. And, on the flip side, a GM should be able to trust their players enough that they can give the Chief a problem, and then just let them run free to solve it.
[10:29] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Oh, and knowing how to put together technobabble helps...
[10:29] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Yep! I can babble with the best of them. Er...o.O
[10:30] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I had a bit of an advantage, having done training with Electrical systems. I knew how to assemble words to make them sound...techy.
[10:30] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: If you can do that? You're golden. Oh...and stealing from the show from time to time, too...
[10:30] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: All engineers borrow secrets from their buddies.
[10:30] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Which brings up something I ran into. If you know real world engineering, can that also be a hindrance to Trek RP?
[10:31] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Things that just 'work' in Star Trek, suddenly being disputed because 'Real science doesn't do that'?
>>Brief interruption while Ayche answers a RL phone call<<
[11:07] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: In answer to your question, personally...I'd say no. I'm enough of an imaginative person, myself, that I can let a bit of handwavium in.
[11:08] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: One of a roleplayer's most valuable substances, above even latinum: Handwavium, right alongside Unobtanium and Applied Phlebotinum...
[11:09] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Now, how about interesting ways to engage an engineer, besides warp coils and plasma conduits?
[11:09] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Alien tech. A glitch in a computer system. Building a new prototype.
[11:10] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I've always thought programming fell under Engineering, though some argue it's a science thing.
[11:11] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I'm feel the same. Though there is no doubt some programming would occur with Science.
[11:12] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: True, like in real life, FORTRAN has been the main programming language for scientific applications, if I'm remembering correctly.
[11:12] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: But system programming, OS development, and such would be an engineer's realm.
[11:13] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: yep.
[11:13] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: What are the more creative ways you've seen engineers played/engaged in RP?
[11:15] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: One engineer was a Xenotechnological expert. He was a Chief, so he knew his main stuff, but his whole deal was dealing with non-standard technology, learning it, studying it.
[11:16] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: I gave Geralyn here an IC quirk, where she can 'speak' in machine code, so she can 'write' a program by dictating it when her hands are working on another problem.
[11:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: That's a bit different.
[11:17] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Or engineers that are particularly small, so they can get into places.
[11:17] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: But she'll use it to converse with a ship's computer if she's by herself, or doesn't want someone to understand what she's doing.
[11:18] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: For example, "53 61 79 20 48 65 6c 6c 6f 20 74 6f 20 4d 79 20 4c 69 74 74 6c 65 20 46 72 69 65 6e 64"
[11:18] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Means "Say Hello to My Little Friend"
[11:18] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: ...Riiiiight...
[11:19] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: The 'small engineer in small places' concept was my deck crew character from Independence. I loved watching the chief's reactions when she would disappear into the fighters.
[11:20] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Which reflects back on the whole 'having others around helps' motif.
[11:21] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And that's a concept that would apply across all three career tracks, wouldn't it?
[11:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I would think so, yes.
[11:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: having someone of the same branch to bounce ideas and thoughts off of.
[11:21] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: Camaraderie.
[11:24] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: Looking back on this talk, can you think of any other ways to help improve or enhance RP for the engineers and Ops characters, either for players or GMs to be mindful of?
[11:24] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I can't really think of too much more, myself. I think I've made all the points I can consider.
[11:25] [Local] Geralyn Rhig@geralynrhig: And you've made some good ones. I feel I learned a bit more about Ops tonight that will help when I play my Ops character.
[11:25] [Local] Hromar@Ayche: I'm glad.
As you can see, there's a lot going on for both careers, and the unexpected bonus of this discussion was the insight into how overlapping capabilities can affect other professions. There may in fact be some benefit in more clearly defining and separating the duties of each post.
Once again, this is by no means a complete discussion or resolution on the topic, but the start of what we hope is a dialog on the matter, to see what other solutions or ideas people come up with.
So if you have ideas, or have seen interesting ways people have engaged Engineering or Operations characters either as player or GM in various RPs, post them in the comments. Ideas, questions, suggestions, or stories of personal experience where the GM sought to involve the Engineering or Operations officers, and did a Grade A showing of it. We'd love to hear your thoughts!