krow
Member
Posts: 177
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Post by krow on May 10, 2015 18:29:21 GMT
...that post was way longer than it should have been. I apologize. I ramble when bored and opinionated.
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Post by Geralyn on May 10, 2015 19:26:54 GMT
The gear thing is only one of three reasons this has been proposed, and to me is the least important. It was only listed because it was one of the reasons given by some of those who brought the issue to our attention, and like with past and future discussions all concerns of a given topic are being given voice, rather than pick or choose. This way the people who voiced them can see it addressed, and what their fleetmates feel on the matter.
I'm kind of surprised people don't remember the two times we ran out...the uproar in Crossover and the rather accusatory PMs I was fielding were rather memorable to me.
Also, not everyone who is in the fleet acquired all their fleet credits here. Between new members and people who dropped fleet to dump marks now and then, some of those credits come from elsewhere.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 17:59:36 GMT
This is true Geralyn. My latest alt/main that I have brought into the fleet had already over 2,000,000 fleet credits to work with and over 400,000 dilithium. If I wanted to I could "rape" the provisions but I've restrained myself aside from ONE T6 fleet ship for that character... everything else I've gotten from the stores I've ground for. Also we should stress people to "self prune" their alts so in terms of admin, people like Geralyn have less to do regarding removing inactive alts etc... thus focusing on more important things. I'd say if you haven't really used a toon in the last 2 months/3 months unless you have an IC reason you should self remove the toon from the fleet. In terms of the upward limit of 8 to 10 alts I feel that is generous but at the same time I wouldn't want it any less than that.
I realize that asking people to exercise self control may seem like a huge undertaking but I would say that 90% of the active people in the fleet would exercise self control, do self pruning etc...I don't think having that as at least a suggestion to people would hurt.
*drops another nickle in the jar* gosh this is getting expensive
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Post by FoxCDN on May 11, 2015 18:44:16 GMT
I'm not too sure I see an issue with resources, we've more than enough and those who are making the purchases have earned the credits though helping with projects. (If not with us they've put the time in somewhere and I'm sure will again with out fleet) If we run low in a specific area we can easily make things up, we've done it in the past.
When it comes to the admin part I don't see limiting alts as a fix for this and more just a result should a limit be imposed. It's so important to have everyone's characters at the rank that they sit at regardless of the number of alts owned than not.
When it comes to RP who are we as a fleet to dictate how much time a person devotes to a character, I don't understand how this is a factor. Yes it's true time not invested results in a less developed character at times but done properly a character can have a very lasting impression.
In the end I don't see the need for a limit but if the fleet feels one should be imposed then I don't see a huge problem with 10. Just keep in mind that limitations and restrictions imposed can
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Post by Geralyn on May 12, 2015 2:15:46 GMT
...Also we should stress people to "self prune" their alts so in terms of admin, people like Geralyn have less to do regarding removing inactive alts etc... thus focusing on more important things. I'd say if you haven't really used a toon in the last 2 months/3 months unless you have an IC reason you should self remove the toon from the fleet. In terms of the upward limit of 8 to 10 alts I feel that is generous but at the same time I wouldn't want it any less than that. I realize that asking people to exercise self control may seem like a huge undertaking but I would say that 90% of the active people in the fleet would exercise self control, do self pruning etc...I don't think having that as at least a suggestion to people would hurt. Inactive alts are already removed from the roster after 3 months of inactivity. The idea of 'self-pruning', though good in theory, has been proven not to work out. This is proven by the number of inactive alts dropped each month, and most notably by the emergency roster cleanup done in January of 2014, where we had come within a handful of slots from hitting the maximum hard-coded number of members in a fleet (500). Over 100 names were dropped, with last-login dates in 2012 and 2013. And rules are never about the 90% or more who work well with others and are responsible. Rules come about to create a common frame of reference for everyone to be on the same page, or when a minority of people do not consider how their actions may affect the majority. When the fleet was first founded, it was based on the idea of a small group of friends having fun. The fleet has become much larger since, and not everyone knows each other as well as they might. As to the proposed limits, since no one has put forth any compelling logic, or even passionate opinion, calling for a lower number, I don't see it going any less. In fact, ten seems to be the one most often cited as acceptable.
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Post by julianna on May 16, 2015 12:36:49 GMT
just to throw my two cents. I have a healthy number of alts in the fleet (not sure if its above 10 or not), but only two have an RP story (at this time, my main and the next one in line to get my focus), all my alts have contributed to the fleet (usually when I am too lazy to transfer doffs to my main to contribute), and only my main has used any fleet resources. I have no objection to limiting the number of alts (as a couple of my alts are part of a non RP fleet) so they do have a place to go. One thing I would say is that, if my alts go to another fleet, when I am lazy (or want FCs for a new costume) then the resources would be going to that fleet rather than the storytellers. And if I did decide that one of those alts needed some fleet weapons, I wouldn't hesitate to send resources from my main to them in order to get it, thus diverting resources. I think that it comes down to how much do Alts tax the fleets resources and divert spread RP attention.
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Post by Geralyn on Jun 3, 2015 9:17:13 GMT
Just a reminder that this topic will be put up for vote shortly. Anyone who wishes to weigh in on the matter here can do so until the day of the vote, upon which day this thread will be locked.
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Post by nightrader on Jun 3, 2015 20:47:07 GMT
Quick comment, then. Only RP chars should be in the fleet, since this is an RP fleet. Having other alts in the fleet is pointless, as you can have those other chars in the channel chat anyways.
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ryftlord
Member
"The first lesson you learn is loyalty. The second is where it shouldn't be placed."
Posts: 86
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Post by ryftlord on Jun 3, 2015 21:57:19 GMT
Quick comment, then. Only RP chars should be in the fleet, since this is an RP fleet. Having other alts in the fleet is pointless, as you can have those other chars in the channel chat anyways. Alot of us have many RP alts.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 23:05:25 GMT
Quick comment, then. Only RP chars should be in the fleet, since this is an RP fleet. Having other alts in the fleet is pointless, as you can have those other chars in the channel chat anyways. Umm .. what if you have a retired RP character? or a character that isn't fully developed yet? Or a character with a ton of resources for the fleet? or your in an RP funk (aka your not really RPing) etc etc etc... I agree on the number of alts not the type of alts.
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Post by Geralyn on Jun 3, 2015 23:12:59 GMT
Going to say that we're not going to specifically nitpick on type of character. If the vote goes in favor of the limit, anyone over said limit would certainly be encouraged to keep RP characters over non-RP characters, but that's as far as that would go.
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Post by nightrader on Jun 4, 2015 15:25:19 GMT
Quick comment, then. Only RP chars should be in the fleet, since this is an RP fleet. Having other alts in the fleet is pointless, as you can have those other chars in the channel chat anyways. Umm .. what if you have a retired RP character? or a character that isn't fully developed yet? Or a character with a ton of resources for the fleet? or your in an RP funk (aka your not really RPing) etc etc etc... I agree on the number of alts not the type of alts. Retired RP char means they aren't RPing anymore, so there's no point in having them in an RP fleet. If it's an RP char that isn't developed yet, the point of RPing is to develop the char, so they should be allowed. Resources aren't my say, so I won't put my opinion in on that.
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ryftlord
Member
"The first lesson you learn is loyalty. The second is where it shouldn't be placed."
Posts: 86
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Post by ryftlord on Jun 5, 2015 4:27:26 GMT
Umm .. what if you have a retired RP character? or a character that isn't fully developed yet? Or a character with a ton of resources for the fleet? or your in an RP funk (aka your not really RPing) etc etc etc... I agree on the number of alts not the type of alts. Retired RP char means they aren't RPing anymore, so there's no point in having them in an RP fleet. If it's an RP char that isn't developed yet, the point of RPing is to develop the char, so they should be allowed. Resources aren't my say, so I won't put my opinion in on that. The discussion was never really about the type of alts in the fleet. We don't tell people they can't have X character in the fleet because they don't RP them enough, nor do we force out 'retired' characters. It is up to the players themselves to manage their character "status".
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Post by Geralyn on Jun 23, 2015 5:25:07 GMT
The vote on alt limits has concluded, with a final tally of 15 to 6, in favor of a limit of alts to 10 per player. This limit will go into effect immediately, and will be entered into the fleet rules.
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