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Post by johntechgaming on Apr 22, 2016 16:41:48 GMT
So, during the Roleplay run by Miller11b last night, it came into question what the precise relationship between Jeska and Angel Swanson was. While Jeska and I had not discussed it in great detail before that point, for there hadnt been a serious need to, it was brought to our attention that the employer/employee relationship was not in line with something a Starfleet officer would be doing. So, after sleeping on it, and discussing it with both Jeska and some members in RP Crossover, we have come to what we feel is a more realistic solution.
We have decided that, Angel's Company(STG) being a technology company, and working on designing and producing military grade equipment, it would stand to reason that Starfleet would assign a military Liaison to STG, to serve as a means of reliably contacting the company, conveying their desires to company leadership, evaluating STG equipment designs prior to their release to SCOE and the ASDB, providing feedback from Starfleet to STG about equipment in use, and providing a means for STG to reliably contact Starfleet should the need arise. Jeska would be this Liaison.
Any feedback would be most welcome, as we want everything to go smoothly and make sense in a canon environment.
JohnTechGaming
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Post by miller11b on Apr 22, 2016 16:58:27 GMT
So you're the Colonel Rhodes to Tony Stark? Yes, I went there. Don't judge me.
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Post by Erika on Apr 22, 2016 18:05:35 GMT
The real crux of the issue here, IMO, is the status of Starfleet contracting. While I personally would see nothing wrong with it, some people I've heard before cleave to the notion that there should be no private companies in star trek. It a!so relate to the money and economics can of worms.
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Post by miller11b on Apr 22, 2016 18:21:14 GMT
I'm fairly certain that at least TOS era, and I believe DS9 era there are private corporations, though not necessarily affiliated with Starfleet. There are plenty of civilian shipping groups, it stands to reason that there are private companies of all types. That's just my thoughts on the matter.
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Post by johntechgaming on Apr 22, 2016 19:55:03 GMT
The way I have always interpreted the idea of whether Star Trek has some sort of commercial economy and or industry, is that, while the is money in the future, forms of payment for goods and services, like GPL, that are used by large companies and corporations, money doesn't exist as we understand it. Or, even more specifically, it isn't used in the ways we understand it. Basic items, like food, education, medical care, housing, etc., in the Star Trek universe are commodities that, on federation planets at least, are freely available. Whereas, goods and services outside those needed by everyone (Wants) might require some form of compensation. This means that individuals are still motivated to work, for if you didn't have to work, how many people actually would? On an interstellar level, commerce would still, in my opinion, be very important, as it allows planets and groups of people to make exchanges for items they can't get on their own. Also, it was said somewhere in the show, I think it was in first contact, that the Enterprise-E required lots of resources but didn't actually 'cost' anything. This may be because Starfleet has all the resources and facilities necessary to construct their own starships. But what of those interstellar traders? They still need ships. So you have civilian shipyards, for freighters and the like.
Additionally, I think one of the biggest arguments against the existence of some sort of economic structure in Star Trek is that there is no greed. While an optimistic veiw, I think it's more reasonable to say that greed would be considered more Taboo, an unfavorable desire, and over the course of many years, slowly people got out of that sort of habit. People thought of others before themselves. It would explain why Ferengi culture, to most federation citizens when they first met them, was considered alien and taboo.
That's all I have about that for right now. Curious about people's thoughts.
JohnTechGaming
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Post by hszmv on Apr 22, 2016 19:56:36 GMT
So you're the Colonel Rhodes to Tony Stark? Yes, I went there. Don't judge me. I was going to say that when I read to OP. In response to contracting, I imagine that Starfleet does have some contracts with private companies such as various companies holding the food services contract on the Starbase, or the dilithium mine. Where I see the problem would be mercenaries or soldiers of fortune who Starfleet would employ to strengthen fighting forces. And my complaint there is only for Starfleet. KDF doing this is used to justify a lot of the race options on that side and the Republic Militia would do it to cover experience and ship gaps that they might have.
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Post by johntechgaming on Apr 22, 2016 20:04:27 GMT
I agree with you, hszmv, I don't think Starfleet would be the sort of organization that under normal circumstances would hire people into its ranks, except perhaps during times of war.
BTW, the Colonel Rhodes + Tony Stark relationship is pretty much exactly what I was thinking of. Analogy totally approved.
JohnTechGaming
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Post by miller11b on Apr 22, 2016 20:06:46 GMT
^Winning.
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Post by johntechgaming on Apr 22, 2016 20:07:16 GMT
+1
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Post by A Lurker on Apr 22, 2016 22:22:57 GMT
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Post by johntechgaming on Apr 22, 2016 23:01:22 GMT
Can I just say, I was astounded by that article/blog post. It really makes alot of sense to me, and is something I would encourage all of us to read fully, as I think it outlines precisely what the Federation is like. For example, Angel Swanson, as a federation citizen, doesnt need to work. But, by running her company, She has more buying potential then someone who doesnt work. She could be 'Rich', as in, she could obtain lots of latinum, and be the Ferengi definition of rich, but she doesnt have to. It would mean that it makes sense for Starfleet to 'buy' her companies technology, because while they arent really giving the company anything, they would be capable of obtaining more resources, ships, replicators, what have you, because of the work that they do. +infinity to that post JohnTechGaming
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Post by Geralyn on Apr 23, 2016 13:12:40 GMT
Looking over the post and doing some research as well, I actually have several points to bring up that you might not have considered. In the matter of Starfeet and technology: they do not really need, for any reason or in any capacity, outside contractors. R & D takes place on every ship in the fleet, and is reported back to Command. Further R & D takes place on many worlds and stations. And with the possession of industrial fabricators and replicators placed in every ship and on every starbase...why would they need to contract anyone to manufacture technology?
One might argue that someone has a new technology Starfleet does not possess, but with the aforementioned industrial-grade capacity at the beck and call of every captain, they would not be negotiating for manufacture. They would negotiate for the file which contains the design, if anything, just like a file from today's 3D software is purchased for use with a 3D printer.
And in the case of any negotiations that might take place with an external company, they would not use a member of a starship's command crew. They would send someone from Utopia Planitia or from SCE. Jeska's Member comments on the fleet roster identify her as a CMO (Chief Medical Officer), who would not be involved in the evaluation of technology; even if an expert was needed to evaluate some form of medical technology, it would be someone from a fully staffed starbase, rather than calling a ship's CMO away from his/her post.
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Post by johntechgaming on Apr 23, 2016 23:11:21 GMT
Thanks Geralyn for mentioning to me Jeska's current position, as I was unaware of how she had ranked herself as far as the Tellers were concerned. We will probably adjust that. So that people understand why we are going to such lengths to make this arrangement, Jeska and I have been Roleplaying a lot together over the last six months or so, and we have become very good friends. She is one of the reasons I joined the Tellers in the first place. Jeska would like our characters to RP together frequently, and often as a pair. Hence the establishment of this relationship.
On the point of R&D and component manufacturers, a topic I never intended to bring up in this thread(nor had I expected was considered such an issue...), in canon trek, there are companies/organizations, such as the Soong Foundation and he Daystrom Institute, that do Independant R&D for the Federation, and work in some cases quite closely with Starfleet while not falling within Starfleets ranks. Additionally, the idea that Replicators can make almost everything and anything, which I seem to gather that a lot of people think that is the case, is a bit incorrect. We know that replicators can't make everything, because the Federation has material gathering facilities like mines. This may indicate a couple things, in my thinking. A, that some materials, like Duranium, Tritanium, etc, are impossible to replicate, a lot like Latinum(Which would be what makes it valuable and gold worthless), and as such need to be mined, refined, and made into products by 'hand', instead of simply made in a replicator.(Which sorta invalidates the idea of replicators that can make whole ships, but that's besides my point.) Or B, it indicates that such materials or components are so costly to replicate, energy wise(Conservation of Mass&Energy, people), that it is more practical just to mine, refine, and assemble them.
JohnTechGaming
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Post by Geralyn on Apr 24, 2016 0:55:24 GMT
Let me preface this by saying I'm all for the idea of new ideas for RP. This isn't intended to be seen as disapproval, only the offering of feedback as requested. Having said that, I'll address these points, but also propose an alternative direction you could take the RP in that I'm surprised nobody has considered when creating civilian companies... ... the idea that Replicators can make almost everything and anything, which I seem to gather that a lot of people think that is the case, is a bit incorrect. We know that replicators can't make everything, because the Federation has material gathering facilities like mines. This may indicate a couple things, in my thinking. A, that some materials, like Duranium, Tritanium, etc, are impossible to replicate, a lot like Latinum(Which would be what makes it valuable and gold worthless), and as such need to be mined, refined, and made into products by 'hand', instead of simply made in a replicator.(Which sorta invalidates the idea of replicators that can make whole ships... The only three materials mentioned in canon as being unreplicatable that I'm aware of are dilithium, antimatter, and latinum. There may be others, but I haven't come across any references. As to how much a replicator can replicate, two Class Four Industrial replicators were considered adequate for rebuilding Bajor after the occupation, and a dozen were considered sufficient to begin rebuilding factories and power plants on several dozen Cardassian worlds. Based on this, replication of the parts for a ship don't seem quite so far out of reach. The Daystrom Institute is considered a department of Starfleet.The Soong Foundation, created for STO, is specifically affiliated with the Daystrom Institute and was dedicated with the promotion of the rights of artificial lifeforms. Now, having said that: I'm not saying the base concept is unworkable, only that Starfleet would not avail themselves of such a company's service. What would be a very workable idea is based on the fact there are other potential customers besides Starfleet that would very much indeed need such services, and Starfleet's involvement might very well be in the transporting of the needed equipment or services. Such as: - Existing colony worlds on distant borders of Federation space.
- New colonies just beginning on recently selected worlds..
- Non-Starfleet starbases and space stations.
- Non-Federation members having trade agreements with the Federation.
- Worlds who have suffered disasters either natural or caused by other sentients.
After all, the above-mentioned industrial replicators mentioned above had to be sent to Bajor and the Cardassian worlds by someone...and the Cardassians were sent the replicators aboard a civilian Vulcan frieghter.
Starfleet's involvement could easily be along the lines of transporting (especially in the case of disaster relief), the coordination of such operations (Problem A on world B can be fixed by remedy C, which is available from organization D - Solution: get D and B talking together). Other possible involvements could be the Federation's request to inspect/evaluate the organization's products for suitability in the intended application (like the FDA or Surgeon General), or any number of other possibilities.
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Talla
Member
Uh... happy?
Posts: 51
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Post by Talla on Apr 26, 2016 11:31:47 GMT
There's also Yoyodyne, which produced the propulsion systems for at least the Constellation Class starships.
"Yoyodyne is the name of a number of companies, both fictional and real."
"Numerous references in the Star Trek series, such as control panels and dedication plaques, indicate that parts of Federation starships were manufactured by Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems or YPS. Often, these notices are too small to be visible on a television screen, or can only be observed by freeze-framing. The creators of Star Trek: The Next Generation were noted fans of Buckaroo Banzai and featured many references to the film in the series."
I dunno if this helps or not. I have a headache.
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Post by Geralyn on Apr 26, 2016 13:09:19 GMT
There's also Yoyodyne, which produced the propulsion systems for at least the Constellation Class starships. "Yoyodyne is the name of a number of companies, both fictional and real." "Numerous references in the Star Trek series, such as control panels and dedication plaques, indicate that parts of Federation starships were manufactured by Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems or YPS. Often, these notices are too small to be visible on a television screen, or can only be observed by freeze-framing. The creators of Star Trek: The Next Generation were noted fans of Buckaroo Banzai and featured many references to the film in the series." I dunno if this helps or not. I have a headache. Actually, this does help, The information you quoted comes from a Wikipedia page that's marked as not citing enough references or sources, but a search found this page on Memory Alpha that goes into more detail on the Star Trek connection. This apparently is canon reference to a corporation that is a "ship-building entity", however strange it is to have been named after a company in the movie Buckaroo Banzai. They apparently built the ship itself and the propulsion systems, then delivered them to Starfleet. The company has never been mentioned in dialog, with the only evidence of its existence being on dedication plaques and infographics (and apparently on a directory listing on DS9), else it might have been more widely known.
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Post by johntechgaming on Apr 27, 2016 18:03:54 GMT
Huh...
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Post by Geralyn on Apr 28, 2016 3:52:49 GMT
Yeah, kinda my reaction when I read up on it. :-) But it's on screen more than once (don't blink or you'll miss it), therefore it's canon information that supports the existence of corporations in the capacity of ship builders, which I would assume would be fitted with any weapons or shielding by Starfleet after the fact. And if there's one, there would by necessity be more, to make for competitive bidding and avoid monopolies or complacency in the quality control department.
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Post by johntechgaming on Apr 28, 2016 23:02:44 GMT
Agreed. On a side note, Swanson Technologies Group isn't nearly as cool a name as Yoyodyne.
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