|
Post by vasco56 on Jan 11, 2014 22:57:33 GMT
Hello all,
After much consideration I have decided to tender my resignation as pathfinder. Quite simply, I no longer play the game enough to justify continuing in my role as a fleet officer. These days my only reason to log on is to take my place on the bridge of the Exodus as Susi.
I hope the nominees to take my place continue to have the best interests of this fleet at heart and adhere to the principles upon which it was founded.
Regards,
|
|
|
Post by norcaler on Jan 13, 2014 6:44:38 GMT
May I be the first to offer my thank to Vasco for his service and leadership to this fleet as a Pathfinder and I of all people can understand his reasons for wanting to bow out. I have full confidence in Kal and Geralyn to handle the transition and election of a new Pathfinder and I wish who ever succeeds Vasco the best of luck in the position.
|
|
Flynt
Member
I'm just here for the donuts.
Posts: 222
|
Post by Flynt on Jan 14, 2014 2:41:44 GMT
Job well done, Vasco. Hope to see you around as I get back in the swing of RP.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 17:04:22 GMT
Thank you for everything that you've done for the fleet, vasco. Hopefully you can come back more into game sometime and join into more RP.
|
|
|
Post by arbriel on Jan 15, 2014 14:24:08 GMT
Thank you so much Vasco for your excellent work as pathfinder!
You'll be missed, save for when the Exodus runs.
Arbriel
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 0:22:58 GMT
Vasco,
Thanks for all the help and for all the insight. You have done a wonderful job as pathfinder
Jim.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 1:26:39 GMT
Thank you Vasco for all you've done for the fleet
|
|
|
Post by vasco56 on Jan 18, 2014 17:01:16 GMT
Guys and girls,
It was never my intention to explain the real reason why I stepped down, but after talking with some old hands in the fleet, I feel it may be in the best interest in the longevity of our group of friends to explain why I no longer RP in STO.
It's that lack of adherence to ST canon and being party to or witness to storylines and events that are so far divorced from the series and movies that created the Star Trek universe that it makes even appearing in the 146th bar an exercise in disappointment and frustration.
The role of a Pathfinder is to enable the membership of this fleet to RP as they see fit, and the older members know full well why. When we were members of STORP, every aspect of our existence within this game was overseen and governed by the will of a single individual; the fleet officers were chosen from those who demonstrated real talent for RP, were promoted and found themselves with responsibilities that actually limited their ability to do so. Imagine a talented actor who was ordered to be part of the production team in a movie that they could have won an Oscar for. That was pretty much it. Their managerial responsibilities limited their involvement in what they loved most about RPing in the ST universe. That was their reason for deciding to form a small fleet of friends, leave STORP and do their own thing. And this was what caused the initial schism and lead to the formation of the Strorytellers.
Years on from this event, the structure of this fleet was meant to enable the membership to RP without involvement from the 'hierarchy' and the virtual dictatorship of one individual; to create an environment where people could RP freely and develop their characters as they saw fit. However, such a permissive attitude carries with it the potential for anarchy, and it was realising that I, as a fleet officer was powerless to prevent the destruction of the fundamental tenants of Rodenberry's universe and those of the writers, actors and directors (short of J.J. Abrams, who is a total arse and the reason that Hollywood is seen as a division of US Government propoganda!) that caused me to at first, withdraw from involvement with the fleet and then give up on the game entirely. The only reason I log on one day a week is because my friendship with Tiana and the crew and GMs of the Exodus that goes back years.
I, as a player, could no longer listen to some of the conversations in the 146th bar without grinding my teeth and wanting to throttle the life out of some fleet members because of some of the storylines that I was hearing; multiple Obelisk carriers in the fleet? I want to captain a Tholian carrier? I want to create a character from a race of beings who had awesome powers? Give me an f'ing break! I would apologise for my language if it wasn't how I truly felt, but I do.
Bottom line? I was fed up with feeling like a kindergarten teacher mediating between adults who behaved like three-year-olds because they couldn't have their own way, unbelievable storylines which broke the principles of 'the suspension of disbelief' and ST canon and feeling powerless to tell people to STFU and get with the program. This is the Star Trek universe and the reason I subscribed to first the game and then the best bunch of ST roleplayers I ever encountered. Then all of a sudden, I'm in a totally different universe that is subject to the creative whims of anybody who becomes a member of this fleet, and quite frankly it has bugger-all to do with Roddenberry's dream and more to do with the individual's need to feel powerful outside of RL.
The best RPers I have been involved with are those below the rank of Commander; those who feel playing a role as a subordinate and supporting a storyline that benefits the entire ship's crew or the fleet. Having to act as a subordinate to people who appear out of the blue and want to be a captain, or admiral, with no RL experience of what it means to have responsibility for the lives and dreams of their subordinates, children or direct reports and who treat the playerbase as supporting actors to their personal aspirations, dreams of being in the limelight or rising above the limitations of their RL existence are f'ing the rest of the playerbase over.
Having read through what I've written, I realise that this has become a rant, but one that truly expresses the frustration that caused me to give up a game that I love and the camaraderie of individuals who shared my experiences and the thrills of being a member of a crew and a fleet, whose members were promoted on their ability as RPers and commitment to a dream: the dream of playing a supporting role in the Star Trek universe.
Tiana, To'real, J'rai, Becky, Nysara, Sanders. Korzan, and the rest of you - and you know who you are - I apologise. You were the reason I kept coming back day after day. But I could no longer walk into the 146th bar, witness what I witnessed and stay silent.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 0:41:55 GMT
I can't say just how much this post reflects my own frustrations as well. Vasco I feel the same way with the direction the fleet has taken too.
|
|
|
Post by Joe - ursoulreaper on Jan 20, 2014 1:20:11 GMT
Vasco's words should be remembered. It's far too accurate.
|
|
|
Post by hszmv on Jan 20, 2014 4:37:24 GMT
Agreed... recently I rolled a character designed to be an Ensign and having fun RPing her as being a brand new officer.
|
|
|
Post by norcaler on Jan 20, 2014 6:23:09 GMT
There does seem to be an underlying issue here, one that Vasco finally spoke up about in explaining the reasons for his departure and one what was silently shared by three fleet members of the fleet here in this thread. It is something that definitely bears watching and something that should be taken into consideration when we elect Vasco's replacement.
|
|
Killerwing (at work)
Guest
|
Post by Killerwing (at work) on Jan 20, 2014 15:02:48 GMT
I totally agree with his rant.
Multiple Obelisks or Thorian ships, or self-made race that is somehow really strong is something that has made(and would make me) cringe when I read or hear about it.
Of course I'm not surprised to hear about some other RPers outside our fleet that would also claim to captain an Obelisk, but I just leave it aside. Still, the Obelisk is supposed to be a rare ship, basically one of a kind(and probably unique?) and we still managed to have at least up to 3, probably more of them, right?
The fleet was indeed made to help promote a certain amount of freedom in terms of what you want to RP, but it really messes things up if you're basically making stuff unrelated to the Star Trek universe.
Don't get me wrong, sometimes creating new stuff can do well, but it has to be done properly. Isn't Jarkonis something completely of Tiana's making? And as far as it looks, it would indeed fit with the Star Trek universe.
My own rant of sort here is obviously limited to the fact I don't spend much time online, or at the Starbase bar to hear the cringe-inducing stuff, so that's mostly it.
|
|
tewha7
Member
You can't be a hero unless you're rising above circumstance.
Posts: 141
|
Post by tewha7 on Jan 20, 2014 17:43:30 GMT
I never really met you, but it sounds like we would have had fun together. All the best.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 20:32:08 GMT
I'm reading some of the replies here and I just have one thing to say:
GET AN EGO CHECK, PEOPLE!!!
You want to complain about multiple Obelisks and ships available in the game? You could have just said no.
Special species that cannot be fully replicated in the character creator or have "uber" powers? You could have just said no.
All of you want the title and the power but when it comes down to making a decision, you don't and then whine about it when you get so frustrated about things building up. You had the opportunity to say something and you didn't... that's your OWN fault, not the fleet members' fault.
You don't want Obelisks in the fleet since they're rare and "non-canon"? Cancel Obelisk 47 RP.
You don't want "non-canon" ships like Tholian ships? Then you also need to get rid of all of the damn Odysseys and all of the carrier ships, so then the Avalon, Exodus and Victory need to change ship types, because Oddyseys and Armitages are not canon. They are Z-Store canon and Lockbox canon.
You don't want players playing species that either cannot be fully built in the character creator or have special "uber powers"? SAY NO!!!
You had the power to say no, and you didn't use it. That is NOT the fault of the fleet... that fault lies solely on YOU as a Pathfinder.
Everyone claims that this fleet is all about creativity and fun, but apparently that creativity is only good for those certain few in the "cool kids" circle, and everyone else's creativity is only welcomed to service those certain few. This fleet is becoming as elitist as people in other fleets say it is.
You want the truth? This fleet will most likely self destruct and split off just like it did from STORP, not because the leadership was too heavy-handed like it was in STORP, but the polar opposite... you let things be so lax that things that could have been stopped weren't because the leadership at that time didn't want to step up, put on their big boy underwear and do their job. Unless leadership stands up and does things to nip problems in the bud. It's starting to come around now.
It's funny... this fleet was created by people who felt stifled by structure, but then when they went with a laissez-faire style of fleet, they now complain that there was no structure to prevent things from growing out of hand.
To be honest, The Storytellers aren't the "end-all be-all of RP fleets" in STO. There are better, more structured and quite frankly more FRIENDLY fleets out there. So get off your high horses.
What I just posted may offend you. What I just posted may piss you off to no end. You may even claim that this violates the whole "Wheaton's Law" thing. But you know what? I just pointed out the biggest flaw in this fleet and it had to be said. And I'm the only one in this fleet who apparently has the good sense to bring it up.
And for the record, almost all of my characters are Commander rank or lower... and all of those characters are consistently shit on, primarily from the same people who vasco praised at the end of his rant. So yeah, you can see now why people don't want to play ranks below Captain in this fleet.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 21:16:22 GMT
After chatting on TS and with Pheonyx today it looks like we may need to create a thread around these concerns.
I believe Kal is working on something along these lines. Let me touch base with him and if he needs me to I'll take the key points from the posts here and see what we can do about getting a constructive discussion around these concerns.
|
|
|
Post by Ayche on Jan 20, 2014 21:57:12 GMT
When things went down, the original idea was for myself and the other 'admirals' of the fleet to bow out quietly, and form our own, smaller fleet. A fleet where we didn't need all of the structure, or rules, or anything like that because we could all just talk to each other, as a group of friends and family, to decide what we wanted to do, and where to go in stories. Then we had the whole of the fleet dumped on us. Rather then say 'screw it' and leave anyway, leaving the fleet in a state of panic, we chose to keep going, even though burned out, to try and keep everyone together.
We still implimented those changes of 'no need for rules' because our belief was that we wouldn't need them. And that when we /would/ need them, then we could impliment slowly. Adapt to the situation. Unfortunately, we grew. We aren't small. We weren't back then, either. And our ideas were meant for just that - a small fleet. We didn't want to stifle creativity, we didn't want to deal with the headaches, or the bullshit we'd dealt with thus far. Did we go to far? Yes. Yes, we did. We were so afraid of being the old fleet, we cowed ourselves in a corner and coddled people, letting them get away with pretty much anything short of godmoding.
I was already burned out when I took the Pathfinder position. And I left the position for that very reason, hoping that someone would take the spot who could acctually help keep things going. New blood, with fresh ideas and opinions.
We've tried to implement some structure in the past in order to help out Pathfinders be able to find their footing, and settle some of the issues that we've had in the fleet. The problem is, any time we've tried to do so, we've had backlash. And in a fleet that's meant to exist FOR the members of the fleet, then having the membership resist these kinds of changes disheartens the leadership.
We get to a point where we ask 'what's the point in even trying?' Because we can't change anything if the fleet doesn't want it. So people get to fly whatever ships they want. And be whatever race they want. And those people who feel like it's ruining their STO RP experience are alienated and jaded. In the end, it's not 1 person's fault. And it's not something we should be fighting over.
It's no different then trying to argue about Star Trek versus Star Wars. One person looks at canon differently then another. One person looks at outrageous situations differently then another. Let's not start blaming one side or another. Vasco has his opinions, it's true. So does Pheo, and Rin, and Joe, etc. If we didn't want these things in the past, then yes we should have said something. But we were tired of dealing with those exact issues.
Maybe those of us who were the PAthfinders in the beginning should have stepped aside and let someone else lead...but, then, maybe that would have gone wrong, and made things worse. It's no good, and no use, complaining about 'woula-shoulda-coulda'. What do we want to do NOW. That's the question. And now I'm getting ranty, and I hate that.
|
|
|
Post by Tiana on Jan 20, 2014 22:30:48 GMT
. Don't get me wrong, sometimes creating new stuff can do well, but it has to be done properly. Isn't Jarkonis something completely of Tiana's making? And as far as it looks, it would indeed fit with the Star Trek universe. Thanks! And yes, it is completely my original idea. I put thought into the politics, geography, culture, and how all those things interact with each other to come up with a believable place but so different that it's interesting. I'm glad it got so much mileage and pops back up every now and then, I'm just wondering why there aren't any other original planets and races to use in recurring RP. Then again, only the veterans of Exodus will remember that there was a time we were going there every week and people were getting tired of it. I don't mind helping any wannabe GM to come up with a new setting that is both interesting and new, and of course that fits in the Trek universe.
|
|
krow
Member
Posts: 177
|
Post by krow on Jan 21, 2014 4:29:17 GMT
There's certainly an issue with communication in the fleet. No one wants to call bullshit on stories or characters because people are afraid of making enemies or offending people. And yes, there are cliques. And yeah it makes it a bitch and a half to get involved. There are always people who will be condescending assholes who quietly judge you and whisper about you when your RP isn't up to their standards. But this can all be fixed by actually talking. Tell someone when their RP bothers you. Tell someone as politely as you can that the race they made up seems silly in your humble opinion and that's why you avoid them. Don't just shun them and talk about them behind their back. And for the love of god keep IC and OOC separate. We're all (as far as I've seen) nice and understanding people. We don't need structure or rules, we need peer review and open honest opinions. If you don't work out issues, they'll fester and get worse. Then it ends in someone leaving and no one having a clue as to why. People point fingers, people feel guilty, people avoid other people and things only get worse and spirals. Maybe I'm completely wrong and shouldn't have said anything, but this is just my opinion on the matter. Act like adults and there will be less problems. That's all.
|
|
|
Post by killerwing on Jan 21, 2014 4:49:04 GMT
Perhaps some additional organization could be of use to help us all. Things such as character bios and so on. Make up a database of some of the various information related to all the stuff we made up. Not all of us though have made bios for their characters here(I admit I'm half-lazy on that one).
I think it might be true that despite the Pathfinders serving as 'pseudo-leaders', we are not a very organized fleet overall. For a small tight knit group, it might not have been necessary, but as it was said, we grew up in numbers a whole lot more than expected. We definitively need to make changes and adapt.
|
|